[helen]

Hi there, I'd like to know if anyone else has a similar problem. My son is nearly 13 and has a left sided hemiplegia. He is bright and doing pretty well at school, albeit with some focus and attention problems, however with Maths he is really struggling. The school see it as part of his attention problem but I'm worried that Maths is always going to be a particular problem and telling him to concentrate is just going to make him more frustrated.... He himself complains that he just doesn't get it. Any advice or people going through similar? Thanks, Helen

[karenalice]

HELLO Helen
would just like to add that my son is almost a mirror image of your son on paper apart from he really doesn't get literacy i think we all have some subjects which we are more able in than others and I think it is just a case of playing to your sons strengths rather than his weaknesses
hope that puts your mind at rest a little
Karen .

helen, on 19 January 2012 - 11:02 AM, said:

Hi there, I'd like to know if anyone else has a similar problem. My son is nearly 13 and has a left sided hemiplegia. He is bright and doing pretty well at school, albeit with some focus and attention problems, however with Maths he is really struggling. The school see it as part of his attention problem but I'm worried that Maths is always going to be a particular problem and telling him to concentrate is just going to make him more frustrated.... He himself complains that he just doesn't get it. Any advice or people going through similar? Thanks, Helen

[helen]

Hi Karen,
thank you for that. I suppose I just want to be able to say to his teachers that some things he can't help.
thanks again,
Helen

[amy_louise]

helen, on 19 January 2012 - 11:02 AM, said:

Hi there, I'd like to know if anyone else has a similar problem. My son is nearly 13 and has a left sided hemiplegia. He is bright and doing pretty well at school, albeit with some focus and attention problems, however with Maths he is really struggling. The school see it as part of his attention problem but I'm worried that Maths is always going to be a particular problem and telling him to concentrate is just going to make him more frustrated.... He himself complains that he just doesn't get it. Any advice or people going through similar? Thanks, Helen

Hello! I'm 22 with left sided hemiplegia also. I can well & truly sympathize with the maths problems and it made for much frustration in school. I am convinced it is directly related to hemiplegia and I'm sure I've read that left hemiplegia affected are more likely to struggle with maths, must be a particular part of the brain being damaged. Strangely, I only struggled at specific elements of maths. Algebra, symmetry and other shape work, or things requiring sequencing/ logical thinking I struggled with. In fact, it was impossible. no matter how many times it was explained to me I couldn't get it. Other areas of maths such as multiplying etc was fine, very strong at. The reason I'm convinced it was related to my hemiplegia was that I was quite clever at school (not being big headed) at science, english etc, it doesn't make sense why I would find certain elements of maths impossible to get no matter how many times they were explained, it's like a pure mental block. It's extremely frustrating. I did get a C in the end though.
Another reason I think Maths issues might be related to hemiplegia is that as an adult I struggle terribly with directions/map reading. I just can't translate info on the paper to real life, it's the same sort of thing in maths I think?

I had extra maths tuition through Kumon maths, this might be useful for him?

I know it's hard to panic, but try not to. Make sure his teachers are aware that hemiplegia can cause big problems with maths, so they can make sure they give him extra attention and take extra care to explain things. In fact, there's info on the hemihelp website highlighting maths, might be useful to give it to his teachers?

[helen]

amy_louise, on 19 January 2012 - 10:15 PM, said:

Hello! I'm 22 with left sided hemiplegia also. I can well & truly sympathize with the maths problems and it made for much frustration in school. I am convinced it is directly related to hemiplegia and I'm sure I've read that left hemiplegia affected are more likely to struggle with maths, must be a particular part of the brain being damaged. Strangely, I only struggled at specific elements of maths. Algebra, symmetry and other shape work, or things requiring sequencing/ logical thinking I struggled with. In fact, it was impossible. no matter how many times it was explained to me I couldn't get it. Other areas of maths such as multiplying etc was fine, very strong at. The reason I'm convinced it was related to my hemiplegia was that I was quite clever at school (not being big headed) at science, english etc, it doesn't make sense why I would find certain elements of maths impossible to get no matter how many times they were explained, it's like a pure mental block. It's extremely frustrating. I did get a C in the end though.
Another reason I think Maths issues might be related to hemiplegia is that as an adult I struggle terribly with directions/map reading. I just can't translate info on the paper to real life, it's the same sort of thing in maths I think?

I had extra maths tuition through Kumon maths, this might be useful for him?

I know it's hard to panic, but try not to. Make sure his teachers are aware that hemiplegia can cause big problems with maths, so they can make sure they give him extra attention and take extra care to explain things. In fact, there's info on the hemihelp website highlighting maths, might be useful to give it to his teachers?

Hi there,
thank you for your encouraging words and I think Fin is really similar to you. It does seem to be certain elements of maths that he just cant take in. I've actually taken some information on Maths (and organisation issues) from hemihelp and sent them to his school last night which hopefully will help them understand. Fin struggles with directions and could never do jigsaws either and it is all linked. It is frustrating because I want the teachers to understand that some of the problems he has are 'real' and not just an excuse and I'm sure you felt that too! Anyway like the lady above said, it's best to concentrate on what he can do, not what he can't. The trouble is that maths is a core subject isn't it. Anyway thank you again!
Helen

[amy_louise]

helen, on 20 January 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

Hi there,
thank you for your encouraging words and I think Fin is really similar to you. It does seem to be certain elements of maths that he just cant take in. I've actually taken some information on Maths (and organisation issues) from hemihelp and sent them to his school last night which hopefully will help them understand. Fin struggles with directions and could never do jigsaws either and it is all linked. It is frustrating because I want the teachers to understand that some of the problems he has are 'real' and not just an excuse and I'm sure you felt that too! Anyway like the lady above said, it's best to concentrate on what he can do, not what he can't. The trouble is that maths is a core subject isn't it. Anyway thank you again!
Helen

Yes, I can't do jigsaw puzzles either! I think it's all visual perception difficulties! It's definitely all to do with hemiplegia. I think a lot of the problem with hemiplegia & schools is that they just see the physical effects and challenges it presents and kind of forget that it has unseen problems like visual perception. So it's just making them aware. In general though I think awareness needs raising of the difficulties with visual perception, I think medics don't realise it's a ,major problem too. I didn't even know it was a problem related to my hemiplegia until I went to university & I did some research, it was a relief to find out it was related to hemiplegia, and not through a fault of my own. Sounds like you've got a brilliant approach by focusing on what he can do, yes, just accept there are certain bits of maths he can't do and just make sure he's as good as can be at the other bits! He should be ok then. At least you know it's related to his hemiplegia, I found it knocked my confidence not knowing why I couldn't do certain things in maths.
X

[helen]

amy_louise, on 20 January 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

Yes, I can't do jigsaw puzzles either! I think it's all visual perception difficulties! It's definitely all to do with hemiplegia. I think a lot of the problem with hemiplegia & schools is that they just see the physical effects and challenges it presents and kind of forget that it has unseen problems like visual perception. So it's just making them aware. In general though I think awareness needs raising of the difficulties with visual perception, I think medics don't realise it's a ,major problem too. I didn't even know it was a problem related to my hemiplegia until I went to university & I did some research, it was a relief to find out it was related to hemiplegia, and not through a fault of my own. Sounds like you've got a brilliant approach by focusing on what he can do, yes, just accept there are certain bits of maths he can't do and just make sure he's as good as can be at the other bits! He should be ok then. At least you know it's related to his hemiplegia, I found it knocked my confidence not knowing why I couldn't do certain things in maths.
X

I just had a chat with Fin about it and he actually looked relieved because I don't think he could understand either. I just hope what I sent the teachers they actually read and take in. Most of them seem pretty supportive anyway. Can I ask how old you are and what you are doing now?

[amy_louise]

helen, on 20 January 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

I just had a chat with Fin about it and he actually looked relieved because I don't think he could understand either. I just hope what I sent the teachers they actually read and take in. Most of them seem pretty supportive anyway. Can I ask how old you are and what you are doing now?

Oh good! Knowing is half the battle I think! Yes, it helps a lot if teachers are supportive. I had one really bad teacher and it made me so miserable, I just felt guilty for not getting it, and was just made to feel stupid. Luckily, my GCSE maths teacher was brilliant. Yes of course, I'm 22 and I'm currently doing a masters degree in Health Psychology. Hoping to be a clinical psychologist in many, many years time!

Amy x

[pgd]

helen, on 19 January 2012 - 11:02 AM, said:

Hi there, I'd like to know if anyone else has a similar problem. My son is nearly 13 and has a left sided hemiplegia. He is bright and doing pretty well at school, albeit with some focus and attention problems, however with Maths he is really struggling. The school see it as part of his attention problem but I'm worried that Maths is always going to be a particular problem and telling him to concentrate is just going to make him more frustrated.... He himself complains that he just doesn't get it. Any advice or people going through similar? Thanks, Helen

---

Everyone is likely a little different. It also may depend on how severe the hemi is. Is it almost invisible, mild, moderate, or severe? Doing math easily is related to short-term memory as well as the ability to see objects in the head (whole vs parts/forest vs trees). Part of this can enter the arena of something called constructional apraxia which has to do with the idea of turning a lump of clay into a 3D figure/solving a puzzle like Rubic's Cube. In some cases, the challenge with numbers runs into areas such as keeping track of balls, strikes in baseball; keeping score during bowling; keeping score during a tennis match. Why? Because many of the numbers can be quite unstable in a person's brain/mind/short-term memory storage banks. Any minor glitch in sequencing can be a big challenge; writing things down on paper may help a little. At the same time, it's all neurological. Technically there are a small number of cases where the right medicine can temporarily improve small aspects of math for a few persons for a number of hours - meds like coffee, caffeine and stronger, prescription meds like Ritalin, Dexedrine, Adderall, etc.; however, while it's something to know about, the meds are not cures and even when the meds work, there still are limitations in the math area (also, physics, chemistry, etc.). I strongly suspect that some very basic kinds of math calculations are learnable (like multiplication tables by rote); however, transitioning that into the math required for algebra, geometry is not guaranteed at all (my view) since so much of math requires good, intact short-term memory systems in place which some of those with neurological challenges either may not have or may not be able to easily access at all. I am aware of several websites which address this idea of math and neurological challenges in great depth but I view them more as educational sites vs being able to really fix things. A person can increase their time studying math as well as perhaps receive tutoring help but there are no guarantees at all (my view). The temporary improvements with some meds are very real but they are only temporary at best and to use meds to try to permanently overcome math difficulties simply does not work out well for the vast majority of users at all. It's more or less a very interesting and real footnote but it really doesn't work long term (my view) very well. As I recall, part of the ability to do math is associated with parts of the right temporal and parietal lobes. When there are real gitches there (from birth/whatever), it really means that those areas simply cannot handle math/some aspects of math very well at all and there is no point in trying to force people to try to do so. Part of hemiplegia/hemiparesis is trying to slowly figure out what can and can't be done. Your question is a great question because this issue of math is very real for some persons.

[helen]

pgd, on 23 January 2012 - 11:56 PM, said:

---

Everyone is likely a little different. It also may depend on how severe the hemi is. Is it almost invisible, mild, moderate, or severe? Doing math easily is related to short-term memory as well as the ability to see objects in the head (whole vs parts/forest vs trees). Part of this can enter the arena of something called constructional apraxia which has to do with the idea of turning a lump of clay into a 3D figure/solving a puzzle like Rubic's Cube. In some cases, the challenge with numbers runs into areas such as keeping track of balls, strikes in baseball; keeping score during bowling; keeping score during a tennis match. Why? Because many of the numbers can be quite unstable in a person's brain/mind/short-term memory storage banks. Any minor glitch in sequencing can be a big challenge; writing things down on paper may help a little. At the same time, it's all neurological. Technically there are a small number of cases where the right medicine can temporarily improve small aspects of math for a few persons for a number of hours - meds like coffee, caffeine and stronger, prescription meds like Ritalin, Dexedrine, Adderall, etc.; however, while it's something to know about, the meds are not cures and even when the meds work, there still are limitations in the math area (also, physics, chemistry, etc.). I strongly suspect that some very basic kinds of math calculations are learnable (like multiplication tables by rote); however, transitioning that into the math required for algebra, geometry is not guaranteed at all (my view) since so much of math requires good, intact short-term memory systems in place which some of those with neurological challenges either may not have or may not be able to easily access at all. I am aware of several websites which address this idea of math and neurological challenges in great depth but I view them more as educational sites vs being able to really fix things. A person can increase their time studying math as well as perhaps receive tutoring help but there are no guarantees at all (my view). The temporary improvements with some meds are very real but they are only temporary at best and to use meds to try to permanently overcome math difficulties simply does not work out well for the vast majority of users at all. It's more or less a very interesting and real footnote but it really doesn't work long term (my view) very well. As I recall, part of the ability to do math is associated with parts of the right temporal and parietal lobes. When there are real gitches there (from birth/whatever), it really means that those areas simply cannot handle math/some aspects of math very well at all and there is no point in trying to force people to try to do so. Part of hemiplegia/hemiparesis is trying to slowly figure out what can and can't be done. Your question is a great question because this issue of math is very real for some persons.

thank you for your message. It's really interesting and indeed very comforting to be honest. It's true that fin had no problem with times tables and the simple maths but it is the more complex and geometrics etc that he is not struggling with. I think its something that his teachers need to be aware of and can help him feel less frustrated with. Thanks again for the time you have taken in responding to my question. Helen

[helen]

amy_louise, on 20 January 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

Oh good! Knowing is half the battle I think! Yes, it helps a lot if teachers are supportive. I had one really bad teacher and it made me so miserable, I just felt guilty for not getting it, and was just made to feel stupid. Luckily, my GCSE maths teacher was brilliant. Yes of course, I'm 22 and I'm currently doing a masters degree in Health Psychology. Hoping to be a clinical psychologist in many, many years time!

Amy x

Amy that's excellent! Well done. A few of my friends are clinical psychologists. It's tough to get on the course isn't it but I'm sure you have an awful lot to give in that type of role. Good luck! Helen x

[amy_louise]

helen, on 24 January 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

Amy that's excellent! Well done. A few of my friends are clinical psychologists. It's tough to get on the course isn't it but I'm sure you have an awful lot to give in that type of role. Good luck! Helen x

Yes it's like a 16%-30% success rate to get accepted on the course. But I have a lot of experience to gain before I even think of applying! Thank you X

[amy_louise]

pgd, on 23 January 2012 - 11:56 PM, said:

---

Everyone is likely a little different. It also may depend on how severe the hemi is. Is it almost invisible, mild, moderate, or severe? Doing math easily is related to short-term memory as well as the ability to see objects in the head (whole vs parts/forest vs trees). Part of this can enter the arena of something called constructional apraxia which has to do with the idea of turning a lump of clay into a 3D figure/solving a puzzle like Rubic's Cube. In some cases, the challenge with numbers runs into areas such as keeping track of balls, strikes in baseball; keeping score during bowling; keeping score during a tennis match. Why? Because many of the numbers can be quite unstable in a person's brain/mind/short-term memory storage banks. Any minor glitch in sequencing can be a big challenge; writing things down on paper may help a little. At the same time, it's all neurological. Technically there are a small number of cases where the right medicine can temporarily improve small aspects of math for a few persons for a number of hours - meds like coffee, caffeine and stronger, prescription meds like Ritalin, Dexedrine, Adderall, etc.; however, while it's something to know about, the meds are not cures and even when the meds work, there still are limitations in the math area (also, physics, chemistry, etc.). I strongly suspect that some very basic kinds of math calculations are learnable (like multiplication tables by rote); however, transitioning that into the math required for algebra, geometry is not guaranteed at all (my view) since so much of math requires good, intact short-term memory systems in place which some of those with neurological challenges either may not have or may not be able to easily access at all. I am aware of several websites which address this idea of math and neurological challenges in great depth but I view them more as educational sites vs being able to really fix things. A person can increase their time studying math as well as perhaps receive tutoring help but there are no guarantees at all (my view). The temporary improvements with some meds are very real but they are only temporary at best and to use meds to try to permanently overcome math difficulties simply does not work out well for the vast majority of users at all. It's more or less a very interesting and real footnote but it really doesn't work long term (my view) very well. As I recall, part of the ability to do math is associated with parts of the right temporal and parietal lobes. When there are real gitches there (from birth/whatever), it really means that those areas simply cannot handle math/some aspects of math very well at all and there is no point in trying to force people to try to do so. Part of hemiplegia/hemiparesis is trying to slowly figure out what can and can't be done. Your question is a great question because this issue of math is very real for some persons.

Wow, thank you for that post. It's really interesting stuff! You've summed up perfectly what I have trouble with! I've just accepted I can't do it. My short term memory is also very poor. And it takes real effort to keep my attention span under control. I guess this is related to problems I have now as an adult. I hate going anywhere new on my own because I can't follow signs or directions. I think the issue is that this problem is hidden in hemiplegia, and is poorly understood by health professionals. Maybe it's difficult to diagnose? Or is just not perceived as being a major issue?

[pgd]

amy_louise, on 24 January 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

Wow, thank you for that post. It's really interesting stuff! You've summed up perfectly what I have trouble with! I've just accepted I can't do it. My short term memory is also very poor. And it takes real effort to keep my attention span under control. I guess this is related to problems I have now as an adult. I hate going anywhere new on my own because I can't follow signs or directions. I think the issue is that this problem is hidden in hemiplegia, and is poorly understood by health professionals. Maybe it's difficult to diagnose? Or is just not perceived as being a major issue?

----

amy louise - Your comments are completely in the ballpark (my view). Your comments about doing puzzles, short term memory, and the topic of paying attention/attention span. A few questions: What is your personal recollection of consuming common products which contain caffeine (examples: regular Coca-Cola soft drink, regular Pepsi, Dr. Pepper, or a cup of Yuban 100% Colombian coffee? X-ref: Tirend, NoDoz, Awake, Stay Awake, Vivarin, 5 Hour Energy, Red Bull, etc.? Do you notice any very, very minor change in cognition, perception, alertness, or how your short-term memory works after drinking only one (1) soft drink or coffee? Also, have you ever heard of anti-motion medicines which some persons take to ideally prevent seasickness? Have you ever tried the anti-motion medicine called Bonine? If you have tried Bonine, did you notice how the Bonine may have affected your cognition, perception, body balance, feeling the center of your body, gait, sensory integration etc.? Can you share your experiences with coffee/caffeine soft drinks, etc. - also your experience with Bonine? My guess is that you likely have tried one or more soft drinks containing caffeine but likely never have tried Bonine (an anti-motion medicine). A few more comments. This whole area is very important (my view) but it often not talked about much because it appears to be so narrow or mysterious an area. Many professionals (my view) have no idea what the two words - constructional apraxia - mean; also, some professionals may not completely appreciate what the term sensory integration means. You might take a look at the word - hemiparesis - in Wikipedia. After you share your experiences/lack of experiences with coffee/caffeine and Bonine, will add a few more comments. Bottomline, this is a big area (my view) but almost no one ever talks about it. That's why I think this question about math difficulties posted by Helen is so important. It's a key area but it is frequently ignored (the underlying neurology is not candidly talked about because it appears to many to be so mysterious yet small parts of it are not mysterious at all - my view - but partially known). - pgd

[amy_louise]

pgd, on 25 January 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

----

amy louise - Your comments are completely in the ballpark (my view). Your comments about doing puzzles, short term memory, and the topic of paying attention/attention span. A few questions: What is your personal recollection of consuming common products which contain caffeine (examples: regular Coca-Cola soft drink, regular Pepsi, Dr. Pepper, or a cup of Yuban 100% Colombian coffee? X-ref: Tirend, NoDoz, Awake, Stay Awake, Vivarin, 5 Hour Energy, Red Bull, etc.? Do you notice any very, very minor change in cognition, perception, alertness, or how your short-term memory works after drinking only one (1) soft drink or coffee? Also, have you ever heard of anti-motion medicines which some persons take to ideally prevent seasickness? Have you ever tried the anti-motion medicine called Bonine? If you have tried Bonine, did you notice how the Bonine may have affected your cognition, perception, body balance, feeling the center of your body, gait, sensory integration etc.? Can you share your experiences with coffee/caffeine soft drinks, etc. - also your experience with Bonine? My guess is that you likely have tried one or more soft drinks containing caffeine but likely never have tried Bonine (an anti-motion medicine). A few more comments. This whole area is very important (my view) but it often not talked about much because it appears to be so narrow or mysterious an area. Many professionals (my view) have no idea what the two words - constructional apraxia - mean; also, some professionals may not completely appreciate what the term sensory integration means. You might take a look at the word - hemiparesis - in Wikipedia. After you share your experiences/lack of experiences with coffee/caffeine and Bonine, will add a few more comments. Bottomline, this is a big area (my view) but almost no one ever talks about it. That's why I think this question about math difficulties posted by Helen is so important. It's a key area but it is frequently ignored (the underlying neurology is not candidly talked about because it appears to many to be so mysterious yet small parts of it are not mysterious at all - my view - but partially known). - pgd

I don't take any anti-motion sickness tablets & never have done. I have found that drinking tea does seem to help me focus a bit more. I always seem to drink a lot of tea when writing essays for uni. Yeah I know what you mean about the underlying neurology not being talked about. It's very frustrating. Also, I don't know if this is related to constructional apraxia, but whenever I pour liquids or anything, I have trouble judging the distance from the bottle to the cup, or problems like that?

I would love to know what bit's of the brain are damaged, and all the consequences of the damage. I don't suppose I'll ever know though, because I've never seen anyone other than Orthopaedic specialists, which is frankly ridiculous when you consider it's an injury to the brain. I think I have lots of invisible issues that I think are a result of my hemiplegia. For example, I have anxiety, and do struggle to see problems in a rational sense if you like. There's the visual perception issue, which to me is quite a big one if i'm trying to be an independent adult and can't know where I'm going, I do worry how this will affect my ability to be able to drive. I think these issues are equally as important to be acknowledged as any orthopaedic problems caused by hemiplegia.

In hindsight, it might have been useful to have maybe an education psychologist on board when I started school, so these problems could be identified. It would have saved a lot of trouble!
X